Wade, I concur with Rick about your posts. They enable me to continue to learn about Gods divine plans for his followers and Church. This verse popped into my mind after reading your post. In Proverbs 13:22 (AMPC) A good man leaves an inheritance [of moral stability and goodness] to his children’s children, and wealth of the sinner [finds its way eventually] into the hands of the righteous, for whom it was laid up. We many times see inheritance as a large financial windfall, but it also refers to good moral character, built upon honesty, integrity, humility to name a few. Five years ago, I applied the writings from today’s post. My family and I were in a state of transition with my professional career. I believe our obedience and humility contributed to a new opportunity opening up several months later. So, it is true you cannot out give God! What we must also focus on is the Biblical and moral foundations to our children and grandchildren it only cost us “time”, which is more available than gold!
Wade, I love your posts. I learn something every time I read one.
It had never rang a bell in my brain that in Old Testament Jewish tradition the people were expected to give "10%" but on multiple occasions equivalent to their giving 33+% of their annual income to Kingdom work!
But I also learn about contemporary issues like "Gateway Church" and their pastor. When I saw the short video of that pastor, it brought to mind that I had heard something of the controversy surrounding him and I did a quick search on the net to learn about his sorted past and recent resignation.
Then that led me to discover that his Gateway Church has a membership of 100,000 members!
WOW!
What's up with today's trend of having these super-mega-churches??!!
Is having an increasing giant church instead of smaller multiplying churches birthed by a mother church God's strategy for Kingdom growth and assimilation of disciples in today's church culture?
Granted, Gateway has 8 campuses in Texas and 1 in Wyoming, but they all are identified as being "Gateway" church, not 9 autonomous, independent, decision-making congregations.
Near me we have have Andy Stanley's "North Point Church" of about 30,000 members with about 8 different campuses, all led by Andy Stanley, who I like a lot, but still, that's a big role for one pastor.
Is that God's way of doing church growth today?
Here are some aspects I find common among these super-mega-evangelical churches:
1. They take pride in professing that they are "non-denominational" YET, in effect, they form their own denominations, having multiple satellites following the same leader. (Almost sounds "cultist", huh?)
2. They all have "1", high profile leader over all of their satellite campuses that primarily are the preachers for everyone's services.
It all seems to be a formula for having a downfall due to the emphasis upon their 1 high celebrity leader, i.e., Gateway Church.
OR
Woodstock Baptist Church, in Georgia, which only has about 17,000 members meeting on a 1-campus site with a 435,000 square foot facility. Still, high-profile, celebrity preacher, Pastor Johnny Hunt, fell into a hole following his escapade with a female staffer, wife of one of his Staff members.
Such a common occurrence with churches having these ultra-high profile celebrity leaders.
And so many other devastating controversies surrounding these high profile celebrity leaders.
My church has been blessed of late by the amazing power of God's Holy Spirit anointing our church's sincere service to the Lord and commitment to the priorities of "The Word", Jesus Christ as Lord, sacrificial commitment to missions, non-tethered commitment to financial "giving", etc. As a result, we are experiencing amazing growth, not due to our having a high-profile personality, leader, but apparently due to God's anointing our obedience in doing things in harmony with His Spirit's leading.
We now have a new pastor and it will be interesting to see his vision for just how we are to assimilate all of this growth; more and more worship services? We have just about outgrown our seating capacity in worship services. How will we respond? Bigger and bigger building size? Strategy of having a church with multiple satellite campuses?
OR
Will we pursue deploying multiple volunteer teams into un-churched communities for the purpose of planting autonomous, decision-making congregational, "Baptist" churches?
How would God have us respond? Which method would be most likely to be in harmony with "His" strategy for us?
Rick, if the "tithe" were still in effect in the New Covenant, then 33.3 percent of one's income would be given to "the church." But the New Covenant church is not Old Covenant Israel. Thanks for your comment, and as always, keep on "keeping on" in expanding Christ's Kingdom. Your information about mega-churches in evangelicalism was extremely enlightening to me.
I LOVE "The New Testament" approach to lifestyle behavioral direction! Just do what God tells you to do! It always seems to me to go way beyond what "The Law" mandated, just the way Jesus said, and you teach in your lessons.
Sincerely, I can't imagine anything I say as being "enlightening" to you, Wade. I figure you have always thought about whatever I express, but I certainly enjoy sharing it.
Charla and I both say Hello! The last time I believe you and I spoke was back when Henderson Hills was contemplating on how to proceed forward with the possible sell of some land the church owned. I, younger man with a mouth that has trouble staying shut at times, opened up to instill some business sense that God had provided me. Another day and a lot of water under the bridge.
First, let me state that Charla and I have always valued your word whether it was in the pulpit or in your presents writings.
In reading your thoughts concerning giving, I find the timing very interesting. For the past week, I have been reading and studying the book "The Blessed Life" by none other than Pastor Robert Morris. So your timing of your post I find interesting. From your current position as I interpret it, I assume you have not read the book by Pastor Morris. My position is due to the apparent lack of back ground as to Pastor Morris and how he strongly believes and profess his Spirit lead gift of Giving. It is very interesting to me some of your statements because Pastor Morris addresses all your concerns about Old Testament Law and our living under grace.
From living down the street from your family when we were all growing up, I know that your family believes strongly in giving to the local church from the fruits provided from God. Notice I said fruits and not FIRST FRUITS. Pastor Morris recognizes that we are not bound by the Law any more. The thing is, tithing (one - tenth) was established several hundred years before Moses was given the Law. In Genesis 14:18-20, Abraham is said to give Melchizedek "a tenth of everything." To Abraham, tithing was a principle not a law.
Murder and adultery are direct do nots in the Old Testament Law. Since we are New Testament Christians living under grace and no longer under the Law, do we have the rights to go out and kill people or to have affairs when we desire. NO! They are principles that are carried through the Bible. The same is for tithing and offering giving.
Pastor Morris views himself as a person who has been given the Spirit-lead gift of giving. So when you view the short video you include in your message, I feel bad to say that you miss his point because of the lack of background to his statement "give your money back." You reference that you believe that he is saying that his previous church, Gateway, would give back the tithes of the people if God does not bless them. You are correct in your statement of what is said. The problem exist in your interpretation. Pastor Morris is referring to he himself will return the funds of a Tither if they have given from their first fruits to God. He himself, not the church. Pastor Morris believes so greatly in the giving by the Spirit lead Giver that he is willing to back up God's promise with his own funds. Since the funds are God's in the first place, if God desires not to honor some ones first fruits, Pastor Morris is willing to allow God to take the money that is already His anyway. The story and the back ground is contained in his book.
The second idea you wondered about was the statement "stealing from God." I find this some what interesting since it is stated very clearly in Malachi 3, verses 6 - 10. In verse 8 and 9 God questions "Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, How are we robbing you?." The statement following speaks volumes, "In tithes and offerings. Vs. 9, You are under a curse - your whole nation -because you are robbing me." It is very clear to me that if I do not demonstrate to God that He is first in my life by offering the first fruits of His blessings to me as He directs, then I will be cursed. Cursed because by not tithing, I show God what is truly the other gods that I place in front of Him. But in verse 10 God instructs us to bring in the whole tithe. God instructs us to test Him. If we are true to tithe our first fruits not just the fruits then God promises to throw open the floodgates and bless us in ways we can not even comprehend. I have seen it happen God has down poured on me when I thought it might only be a gentle rain. The question of giving becomes: do you want to be blessed by God or cursed by God. I know what I'm working for!
You might say, well that is still Old Testament. True but God placed the book of Malachi as the last book of the Old Testament to set forth some points to carry into the time of Christ. In Malachi 3:6, God states "I the Lord do not change." So God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament and therefore there is nothing different between the Old and New Testaments in tithing to God what is His.
I happen to have a meeting with my current Pastor on he Spirit lead Giver next week. With such, Pastor Morris knew that Spirit lead giving and preaching about tithing our first fruits was a difficult task for most Pastors. This is because many Pastors do not possess this gift as one of their main gift as set out by Paul in Romans 12. If you a stirred to read this book to gain a better insight to what I'm referencing, there is a section starting on page 136 of Pastor Morris' book directed to Pastors. This section of the book is to provide a better understanding of how to accept and train the people in the local church who God has provided the Spirit lead gift of giving too.
As far as the remaining thoughts you present, you are right on. II Corinthians 9 is an important message by Paul on giving. You keyed in on verse 7 while I think verse 8 is equally important. Verse 7 is the primary guideline for giving. Each person is to give "just as he has purposed in his heart." Giving is between the giver and the Holy Spirit. A blessed life is an outgrowth of cheerful giving. It all comes down to a heart thing.
With the message given by Paul in verses 6 and 7, i think verse 8 hold a special message. The word "ALL" in this verse is the critical word. The cheerful giver is promised that they will always have all sufficiency in all things. Why - so we may have an abundance for every good work. This is the life of a giver directed by the Holy Spirit. Knowing first hand about this gift, as my family gives as directed by God our first fruits, I'm constantly look out for the direction of verse 6. God has blessed us with seeds. We can either sow them sparingly and reap sparingly or we can sow generously and reap generously. God directs us where to sow His seed on the good that produces saved lives. It is like we are on a mission to bankrupt Satan. The more seeds I can sow as directed by the Holy Spirit the greater the crops. I can't wait to get to heaven to meet all the people I no idea I was touching or helping in their salvation by giving my offerings as directed by God.
Wade thanks again for your hard work and presentation. When you want to talk about our mutual loses in Crypto, reach out and we can talk about what God showed each of us during the time of testing.
Superb comment. I love the way you communicate in writing. I do NOT agree with Robert Morris' view on tithing, but I do recognize the great Kingdom work of local churches. In three decades of pastoring the same large church, we always invited people to "take from" the offering, never sent out a "commitment card for giving," and I never taught "the tithe." Every single year we had a BUDGET surplus. I don't mean we received more than expenses (actual expenses are NOT the budget), but we received more than what the church voted to spend on the annual BUDGET. You may or may not know, but Robert Morris has resigned from Gateway. I think his teaching on "tithing" was only illustrative of a warped view of the Gospel. However, I have zero interest in correcting anyone's theological positions. I only seek to set people free with a biblical understanding of grace. Finally, my "crypto losses" have returned from the grave, and now they are cyrpto "profits." But, just like you, I put no trust in finance, only the LORD. Blessings!
This just set me free on so many levels…I had previously heard this preached in some measure from another minister, but the context of the old/new covenant comparison and the “why” behind the forced tenth was not explained.
I love to give, and I firsthand understand the financial needs of the church and the people, as I was “the” unpaid janitorial crew of the church when I was growing up…”I’d rather scrub toilets in the house of the Lord, than dwell in the tents of the wicked”! Ha! (Pastors’ kids have lots of adventures, you know!)
However, your blog today has expanded my perspective on how I can better align my giving and financial decisions with the Lord’s direction. I appreciate it.
Jana, your comment is inspiring. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I know you to be a generous, self-less, Spirit-led person. I'm glad this post affirmed the work of Christ in you.
Gaylene, I changed the photo (thank you). And you are RIGHT - It was "icky, icky, icky!" But I also realized that I didn't answer your initial question.
"Why use AI images?"
Here's why. I've been sued THREE TIMES for using images that were copyrighted. I always try to give credit, and because I run a non-profit, I have what is called "educational exceptions."
However, the suits still take time, money, and energy.
I pay $20 a month for Chat GPT 5.0 and the images that I receive are NOT copyrighted.
So, I use AI images to avoid the courts.
I hope that answers your question.
In closing, Gaylene, you are a true friend. You did three things.
1. You spoke the truth.
2. You asked a perceptive question.
3. You caused me to change "on a dime."
If more people would "speak the truth in love" (like you), the world would be a better place.
Thank you.
Wade
P.S. - The substitute photo (in place of AI) comes from SNAPPA. I pay an annual fee of $250 for copyrighted photos that I can use. I should have gone to SNAPPA first. I'm calling this my Gaylene Rule in the future. Always go to the more realistic photo before an AI photo. Thank you.
Gaylene, you are "spot on!" I'm laughing. Thanks for your comment! I'm changing the photo, and to be candid, I did not even notice until you said something. Blessings!
Wade, I concur with Rick about your posts. They enable me to continue to learn about Gods divine plans for his followers and Church. This verse popped into my mind after reading your post. In Proverbs 13:22 (AMPC) A good man leaves an inheritance [of moral stability and goodness] to his children’s children, and wealth of the sinner [finds its way eventually] into the hands of the righteous, for whom it was laid up. We many times see inheritance as a large financial windfall, but it also refers to good moral character, built upon honesty, integrity, humility to name a few. Five years ago, I applied the writings from today’s post. My family and I were in a state of transition with my professional career. I believe our obedience and humility contributed to a new opportunity opening up several months later. So, it is true you cannot out give God! What we must also focus on is the Biblical and moral foundations to our children and grandchildren it only cost us “time”, which is more available than gold!
Wade, I love your posts. I learn something every time I read one.
It had never rang a bell in my brain that in Old Testament Jewish tradition the people were expected to give "10%" but on multiple occasions equivalent to their giving 33+% of their annual income to Kingdom work!
But I also learn about contemporary issues like "Gateway Church" and their pastor. When I saw the short video of that pastor, it brought to mind that I had heard something of the controversy surrounding him and I did a quick search on the net to learn about his sorted past and recent resignation.
Then that led me to discover that his Gateway Church has a membership of 100,000 members!
WOW!
What's up with today's trend of having these super-mega-churches??!!
Is having an increasing giant church instead of smaller multiplying churches birthed by a mother church God's strategy for Kingdom growth and assimilation of disciples in today's church culture?
Granted, Gateway has 8 campuses in Texas and 1 in Wyoming, but they all are identified as being "Gateway" church, not 9 autonomous, independent, decision-making congregations.
Near me we have have Andy Stanley's "North Point Church" of about 30,000 members with about 8 different campuses, all led by Andy Stanley, who I like a lot, but still, that's a big role for one pastor.
Is that God's way of doing church growth today?
Here are some aspects I find common among these super-mega-evangelical churches:
1. They take pride in professing that they are "non-denominational" YET, in effect, they form their own denominations, having multiple satellites following the same leader. (Almost sounds "cultist", huh?)
2. They all have "1", high profile leader over all of their satellite campuses that primarily are the preachers for everyone's services.
It all seems to be a formula for having a downfall due to the emphasis upon their 1 high celebrity leader, i.e., Gateway Church.
OR
Woodstock Baptist Church, in Georgia, which only has about 17,000 members meeting on a 1-campus site with a 435,000 square foot facility. Still, high-profile, celebrity preacher, Pastor Johnny Hunt, fell into a hole following his escapade with a female staffer, wife of one of his Staff members.
Such a common occurrence with churches having these ultra-high profile celebrity leaders.
And so many other devastating controversies surrounding these high profile celebrity leaders.
My church has been blessed of late by the amazing power of God's Holy Spirit anointing our church's sincere service to the Lord and commitment to the priorities of "The Word", Jesus Christ as Lord, sacrificial commitment to missions, non-tethered commitment to financial "giving", etc. As a result, we are experiencing amazing growth, not due to our having a high-profile personality, leader, but apparently due to God's anointing our obedience in doing things in harmony with His Spirit's leading.
We now have a new pastor and it will be interesting to see his vision for just how we are to assimilate all of this growth; more and more worship services? We have just about outgrown our seating capacity in worship services. How will we respond? Bigger and bigger building size? Strategy of having a church with multiple satellite campuses?
OR
Will we pursue deploying multiple volunteer teams into un-churched communities for the purpose of planting autonomous, decision-making congregational, "Baptist" churches?
How would God have us respond? Which method would be most likely to be in harmony with "His" strategy for us?
Rick, if the "tithe" were still in effect in the New Covenant, then 33.3 percent of one's income would be given to "the church." But the New Covenant church is not Old Covenant Israel. Thanks for your comment, and as always, keep on "keeping on" in expanding Christ's Kingdom. Your information about mega-churches in evangelicalism was extremely enlightening to me.
I LOVE "The New Testament" approach to lifestyle behavioral direction! Just do what God tells you to do! It always seems to me to go way beyond what "The Law" mandated, just the way Jesus said, and you teach in your lessons.
Sincerely, I can't imagine anything I say as being "enlightening" to you, Wade. I figure you have always thought about whatever I express, but I certainly enjoy sharing it.
Wade,
Charla and I both say Hello! The last time I believe you and I spoke was back when Henderson Hills was contemplating on how to proceed forward with the possible sell of some land the church owned. I, younger man with a mouth that has trouble staying shut at times, opened up to instill some business sense that God had provided me. Another day and a lot of water under the bridge.
First, let me state that Charla and I have always valued your word whether it was in the pulpit or in your presents writings.
In reading your thoughts concerning giving, I find the timing very interesting. For the past week, I have been reading and studying the book "The Blessed Life" by none other than Pastor Robert Morris. So your timing of your post I find interesting. From your current position as I interpret it, I assume you have not read the book by Pastor Morris. My position is due to the apparent lack of back ground as to Pastor Morris and how he strongly believes and profess his Spirit lead gift of Giving. It is very interesting to me some of your statements because Pastor Morris addresses all your concerns about Old Testament Law and our living under grace.
From living down the street from your family when we were all growing up, I know that your family believes strongly in giving to the local church from the fruits provided from God. Notice I said fruits and not FIRST FRUITS. Pastor Morris recognizes that we are not bound by the Law any more. The thing is, tithing (one - tenth) was established several hundred years before Moses was given the Law. In Genesis 14:18-20, Abraham is said to give Melchizedek "a tenth of everything." To Abraham, tithing was a principle not a law.
Murder and adultery are direct do nots in the Old Testament Law. Since we are New Testament Christians living under grace and no longer under the Law, do we have the rights to go out and kill people or to have affairs when we desire. NO! They are principles that are carried through the Bible. The same is for tithing and offering giving.
Pastor Morris views himself as a person who has been given the Spirit-lead gift of giving. So when you view the short video you include in your message, I feel bad to say that you miss his point because of the lack of background to his statement "give your money back." You reference that you believe that he is saying that his previous church, Gateway, would give back the tithes of the people if God does not bless them. You are correct in your statement of what is said. The problem exist in your interpretation. Pastor Morris is referring to he himself will return the funds of a Tither if they have given from their first fruits to God. He himself, not the church. Pastor Morris believes so greatly in the giving by the Spirit lead Giver that he is willing to back up God's promise with his own funds. Since the funds are God's in the first place, if God desires not to honor some ones first fruits, Pastor Morris is willing to allow God to take the money that is already His anyway. The story and the back ground is contained in his book.
The second idea you wondered about was the statement "stealing from God." I find this some what interesting since it is stated very clearly in Malachi 3, verses 6 - 10. In verse 8 and 9 God questions "Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, How are we robbing you?." The statement following speaks volumes, "In tithes and offerings. Vs. 9, You are under a curse - your whole nation -because you are robbing me." It is very clear to me that if I do not demonstrate to God that He is first in my life by offering the first fruits of His blessings to me as He directs, then I will be cursed. Cursed because by not tithing, I show God what is truly the other gods that I place in front of Him. But in verse 10 God instructs us to bring in the whole tithe. God instructs us to test Him. If we are true to tithe our first fruits not just the fruits then God promises to throw open the floodgates and bless us in ways we can not even comprehend. I have seen it happen God has down poured on me when I thought it might only be a gentle rain. The question of giving becomes: do you want to be blessed by God or cursed by God. I know what I'm working for!
You might say, well that is still Old Testament. True but God placed the book of Malachi as the last book of the Old Testament to set forth some points to carry into the time of Christ. In Malachi 3:6, God states "I the Lord do not change." So God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament and therefore there is nothing different between the Old and New Testaments in tithing to God what is His.
I happen to have a meeting with my current Pastor on he Spirit lead Giver next week. With such, Pastor Morris knew that Spirit lead giving and preaching about tithing our first fruits was a difficult task for most Pastors. This is because many Pastors do not possess this gift as one of their main gift as set out by Paul in Romans 12. If you a stirred to read this book to gain a better insight to what I'm referencing, there is a section starting on page 136 of Pastor Morris' book directed to Pastors. This section of the book is to provide a better understanding of how to accept and train the people in the local church who God has provided the Spirit lead gift of giving too.
As far as the remaining thoughts you present, you are right on. II Corinthians 9 is an important message by Paul on giving. You keyed in on verse 7 while I think verse 8 is equally important. Verse 7 is the primary guideline for giving. Each person is to give "just as he has purposed in his heart." Giving is between the giver and the Holy Spirit. A blessed life is an outgrowth of cheerful giving. It all comes down to a heart thing.
With the message given by Paul in verses 6 and 7, i think verse 8 hold a special message. The word "ALL" in this verse is the critical word. The cheerful giver is promised that they will always have all sufficiency in all things. Why - so we may have an abundance for every good work. This is the life of a giver directed by the Holy Spirit. Knowing first hand about this gift, as my family gives as directed by God our first fruits, I'm constantly look out for the direction of verse 6. God has blessed us with seeds. We can either sow them sparingly and reap sparingly or we can sow generously and reap generously. God directs us where to sow His seed on the good that produces saved lives. It is like we are on a mission to bankrupt Satan. The more seeds I can sow as directed by the Holy Spirit the greater the crops. I can't wait to get to heaven to meet all the people I no idea I was touching or helping in their salvation by giving my offerings as directed by God.
Wade thanks again for your hard work and presentation. When you want to talk about our mutual loses in Crypto, reach out and we can talk about what God showed each of us during the time of testing.
John Marlatt
John Marlatt,
Superb comment. I love the way you communicate in writing. I do NOT agree with Robert Morris' view on tithing, but I do recognize the great Kingdom work of local churches. In three decades of pastoring the same large church, we always invited people to "take from" the offering, never sent out a "commitment card for giving," and I never taught "the tithe." Every single year we had a BUDGET surplus. I don't mean we received more than expenses (actual expenses are NOT the budget), but we received more than what the church voted to spend on the annual BUDGET. You may or may not know, but Robert Morris has resigned from Gateway. I think his teaching on "tithing" was only illustrative of a warped view of the Gospel. However, I have zero interest in correcting anyone's theological positions. I only seek to set people free with a biblical understanding of grace. Finally, my "crypto losses" have returned from the grave, and now they are cyrpto "profits." But, just like you, I put no trust in finance, only the LORD. Blessings!
We should all listen to the Holy Ghost and through the Holy Ghost, God will lead us in what, where and how to give!
Amen - a great comment from the most generous giver I know.
This just set me free on so many levels…I had previously heard this preached in some measure from another minister, but the context of the old/new covenant comparison and the “why” behind the forced tenth was not explained.
I love to give, and I firsthand understand the financial needs of the church and the people, as I was “the” unpaid janitorial crew of the church when I was growing up…”I’d rather scrub toilets in the house of the Lord, than dwell in the tents of the wicked”! Ha! (Pastors’ kids have lots of adventures, you know!)
However, your blog today has expanded my perspective on how I can better align my giving and financial decisions with the Lord’s direction. I appreciate it.
Jana, your comment is inspiring. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I know you to be a generous, self-less, Spirit-led person. I'm glad this post affirmed the work of Christ in you.
Thank you for the kind words.
The AI image of the guy without a complete face is icky. Why use AI for images?
Gaylene, I changed the photo (thank you). And you are RIGHT - It was "icky, icky, icky!" But I also realized that I didn't answer your initial question.
"Why use AI images?"
Here's why. I've been sued THREE TIMES for using images that were copyrighted. I always try to give credit, and because I run a non-profit, I have what is called "educational exceptions."
However, the suits still take time, money, and energy.
I pay $20 a month for Chat GPT 5.0 and the images that I receive are NOT copyrighted.
So, I use AI images to avoid the courts.
I hope that answers your question.
In closing, Gaylene, you are a true friend. You did three things.
1. You spoke the truth.
2. You asked a perceptive question.
3. You caused me to change "on a dime."
If more people would "speak the truth in love" (like you), the world would be a better place.
Thank you.
Wade
P.S. - The substitute photo (in place of AI) comes from SNAPPA. I pay an annual fee of $250 for copyrighted photos that I can use. I should have gone to SNAPPA first. I'm calling this my Gaylene Rule in the future. Always go to the more realistic photo before an AI photo. Thank you.
Gaylene, you are "spot on!" I'm laughing. Thanks for your comment! I'm changing the photo, and to be candid, I did not even notice until you said something. Blessings!